WHAT ARE PEOPLE SAYING ABOUT ETERNALSECURITY

Jeff, A very thorough and well done site. I pretty much agreed with you from my bible reading but you have given me wealth of new information. I've gone to a Christian Church/Church of Christ for a number of years and the Senior Minister taught this. (one of the many reason I went to the church.) Respectively, I share concerns about mega churches, but find that many mega-churches are more "spiritual" and concerned about spiritual growth than many of the local churches I've attended... Thanks, Mike

Good Evening....For the past several months I have been watching Pastor
Charles Stanley's InTouch services on television. I am also enrolled in a
32 week Bible Study which is promulgated over the internet by InTouch.
Tonight I read Jeff Paton's critique on the once saved always saved
theology taught by Pastor Stanley. I agree with Mr. Paton, and thank him
for the enlightenment. In recent months Mr. Harold Camping, owner and
General Manager of Family Radio, has been encouraging all his listeners to
leave their churches, as God has declared an end to the church age. A
Monsignor friend of mine recommended a book by a Fr. Ronald Ronheiser
titled "Beyond the Infinite Horizon.", in which he talks about the
unconditional love of God, which permits me as a Christian to "piggyback"
(my words), anyone I love to eternal life, even if they have turned their
back on God.....Yesterday I borrowed from my public library "Jesus, and
unconventional Biography", by Jacques Duquense, in which he states that his
research indicates Jesus was at least 50 years old when he was crucified. I
am most thankful for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the Lords Holy
work, the Bible, for giving me tremendous help in finding the truth........

Thank you so much for your site about eternal security. Many Christians
who otherwise make complete sense about the Bible subscribe to the doctrine
of eternal security. Listening to them, I held this view unexamined for
many years myself. One day I came across a passage in Hebrews 6 that told
me unequivocally that it was possible for one to lose his salvation. I
happened to be in college at the time and shared my insight with a friend
from my "nondenominational" campus group. I soon found out that the campus
group, though nondenominational, held to the idea of eternal security.

One summer, before I had this epiphany, I had been meditating on the
parable of the sower and the seed. I remember writing in a letter to this
same friend that our ministry emphasis was incomplete. We should be trying
to get shallow, thoughtless conversions from those who would not count the
cost and dry up on the rocks or be choked by thorns. After all, those
people are once saved, always saved! They received the word with great
joy, didn't they? Those conversions should be easy to get! Though we would
never see them again in church, we could really fill up heaven with them!
It is amazing just how far into sheer stupidity you can go with faulty
assumptions.

I have not had a chance to read everything on your site, but I plan to do
so. Sometimes I feel so alone doctrinally. The church to which I go does
not subscribe to eternal security, but I am not sure most of them could
tell you why they do or don't believe anything. You can't really reason
with them from the Bible, and, oddly, the good Christian apologists on the
radio and internet tend to be in the OSAS camp. It is wonderful to read
your articulation of my own arguments and some I never thought of.

My grandma used to be a Baptist. Now she takes the Lord's name in vain
with every other breath, is living with a man to whom she is not married,
and is nodding her approval of my sister's homosexual relationship. Last
time we tried to talk to her about her salvation, she said that she had
been saved--once saved, always saved--and that she was going to heaven. I
wrote her a long letter in which I spelled out my strongest points against
that devilish doctrine, but she never said anything about it. I might like
to follow up with your tract about the 140 reasons not to believe in
eternal security.

From: "changedbygrace"

Subject: Victory in Jesus!
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:55:17 -0500

Greetings brother Jeff,

I've been looking at your site and I'm blessed by the logical scriptural
writings that I've looked at so far. I've used portions of some of them to
teach a small group of believers that meet in our house. You have similar
writings to our friends at Evangelical Outreach, Dan and Cheryl Corner. May
the Lord continue to use them to open up peoples eyes to the truth. I'm
quite new at this, nevertheless, I just published our web site on the
internet. Just wanted you to know that there's another web site out there
contending for the true faith. You can go to www.changedbygrace.com to view
the site.

Remember:
Rev 2:10.....Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the
churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Hello Brother,

I see that you have an all too rare concern about the dangers of the
eternal security heresy. I'm glad you're there, and I enjoy reading your
refreshing articles. Yesterday, I read with tears the introduction to
Arminius' commentary on Romans 7 written by his children ... a great read.
I only wish that our theological debates could always maintain the fine
civility and modest respect that permeates Arminius' writings. I look
forward to reading more of your articles.

God Bless You,

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I think I have corresponded with you before ( I'm not sure... old age
is rapidly approaching... and my memory is not what it used to be!)?

I genuinely love you website and the TRUTHS that are taught therein.

I have been going through each article one by one and have
learned much!

Recently I became part of a message board on the net that was
discussing the subject of eternal security (OSAS). I was reluctant to
enter into the discussion, but after reading several 'arguments' that
were presented, it was quite easy to see that some were either
totally deceived by someone else's teaching, or they were willingly
'ignorant' of what God's word really says!

I had to roll up my sleeves and jump into the battle! I am not a
preacher by any stretch of the imagination... I have had no
college... no institutional theological studies of any kind... but I feel
I do have an understanding of God's word.

You see....around 5 or 6 years ago, I became quite confused with
how ten different preachers could preach on ONE topic, and still
come up with ten different interpretations! Oh... a couple of them
might be close in understanding, but most would be at completely
opposite ends of the spectrum from each other!

I wondered if there was any way to KNOW the truth. I got on my
knees before God and asked Him to teach me His Word... His
Way. He answered my prayer in ways I could not have imagined!
The Holy Scriptures opened up to me in a way that before was void
of understanding!

While searching out the answers for another subject, the answers
for Eternal Security came to the forefront of my mind. I had been
led to believe that I was secure no matter what I did or didn't do,
simply because I had recited the 'sinner's prayer'.

I was astounded when the Bible told me otherwise! A whole new
revelation of salvation began to emerge! One that involved
'Repentance' ( something that I had not heard a lot about!)! One
that commanded 'Holiness', not introduced it as merely an option!

I've had to do a lot of soul searching and by God's grace, am now
walking in His light and truth, and loving every minute of it!
Especially when I get to share the truths I've learned with others!

On that message board I mentioned earlier, most of the arguments
were from those who bordered on the verge of belligerent! They
would get downright nasty with me when I presented the very
passages they insisted proved their position, with the full context of
it's meaning!

I would then offer other passages that disproved their position, and
when they couldn't answer... they would resort to Human logic and
bomb me with it mercilessly! I could always tell when that point
arrived, as their responses would no longer contain scripture, but
merely man-made clichés and such!

By the Spirit, One man did begin to see the error of his
understanding, and we have begun a new friendship via private e-
mail. He still is having some difficulty, but I can definitely see the
Spirit of God convincing him! Praise God!...

You see... I had never been formerly taught anything about
Calvinism as a theology ( although I will readily admit that much of
it's teachings were taught to me... not as 'Calvinism'... but as
scripture). On the other hand... I had never been taught anything
about Arminianism, either!

When God opened up His word to me around 5 or 6 years ago, I
didn't even know that there was such a thing as 'Arminianism'! No-
one had ever told me that it was possible for a believer to walk
away from God and forfeit their salvation!

You see... after God opened my (spiritual) eyes, I understood His
word and believed it as truth! I believed the passages that
command us to be Holy, for without it, none would see God! I
believed the passages that said we cannot say we love God, and
continue to disobey Him! I believed the passages that said we
must REPENT, or we would likewise parish!...

Praise His Holy Name!!!!!!!

In Christ,

Love your site, I've been studying the Eternal Security debate and have
always thought it a strange doctrine. After spending months researching it
I recently saw I Cor. 5:1-5 given as evidence of loosing your fleshly body
but having your spirit saved....just wanted to hear your spin on it if you
will....also just a brief comment...as a young man raised in the Nazarene
Church, I made several trips to the altar where an invitation was given,
simply because I was afraid of "passing up the call". Odd how I never had
imparted to me a feeling of security...though I was raised believing the
salvation story.....Recently I had a friendly exchange with a Baptist
friend and he gave me a recording of a song he likes to sing at church. It
resounded with a core belief which I found repulsive. The lyrical line of
the song was this; "it seems I'm so good at making promises, and I treat
your precious GRACE SO CARELESSLY." As you can see this illustrates the
mentality perfectly. I'd dare say this is not the sort of confession he'd
make about his work performance to his boss. Yet it seems most appropriate
for him to sing this song to his fellow church members. It seems this is
one of their favorite songs.....what a shame....god bless....thanks for all
you've done ...peace be with you and yours...Barry M.

I would like to commend the author of the articles of OSAS and the refuting
of Charles Stanley.
There are so many issues you have raised I have been teaching to others
almost identically for years, and I just ran into your website.
You have done a superb job defending the truth.
I cant understand how educated people can slice and dice up the scriptures
like they do to promote their teachings... I look forward to reading more of your material...

God bless and keep up the good work.
Tim D.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

I just happened onto your website while researching the beliefs and
teachings of Charles Stanley!

I must say without reservation.... I am tremendously uplifted and
confirmed by your words in that article! Ten years ago, I was forced
to search out the truth between what I was taught as a youngster,
and what the Holy Spirit revealed to me through my own scripture
study!

A brief testimony will point out my meaning...

I was saved at the tender age of 9, and went to church every
Sunday! As I got a little older, as most teenagers do, I began to
rebel, somewhat ( however, in our home, being the last of 7
children, if we rebelled and stepped too far over the line, we felt the
wrath of punishment, if you know what I mean! My parents were
VERY loving, but they also believed in discipline, and I don't mean
by giving a 'time-out' for a few minutes!!!)

I like to jokingly say that during my teenage years, I had a 'drug'
problem! My parents 'drug' me to church every Sunday whether I
wanted to go or not!

By my late teens, I was doing things (in secret) that I knew were
wrong, but the pleasures they brought me, as short lived as they
were, became my passion!

I still went to church when my parents went, but basically went
through the motions so to speak! I loved my parents and did not
want to embarrass them by letting my 'secret sins' show forth!

Some might say, I was a 'carnal Christian' , but I have since found
that to be an impossibility, not to mention a non-biblical teaching!

At the age of 21, I joined the military and was stationed in
California. This being the first time away from home and no-one
knowing me, I really 'let my hair down'!! For close to 3 years, I lived
a live of fleshly indulgences and unrepentant sin. Oh, I would
occasionally tell people that I was a Christian, but most would throw
it back in my face when they saw me doing the same things they
were doing!

Finally, I met a nice girl ( who incidentally had just given her life to
Christ!), and ended up marrying her a year later!

We then moved back to my home town and proceeded to build our
future together. We knew we should go to church ( not because
God wanted us to, but more because that was what was expected
of us from my parents!!) We tried the local Baptist church, but it
was just to 'dry' for our liking.

Eventually, through work, I made friends with a Pastor from
another local church. We started attending his church and we really
learned a lot. But you know... something was still missing in my life.
I just shrugged it off and continued on as if nothing was wrong. I
WAS aware of the sins that had built up on me, but I figured that
God didn't really notice them, because he 'saw the blood' when he
looked at me! I knew sinning was wrong, but if it didn't jeopardize
my eternal destiny , then it must not really be that big of a deal!

Then one evening... God woke me from a dead sleep, I don't
remember the dream specifically, but I do know that it was revealed
to me that I was a lost sinner on my way to HELL! Of course my
first reaction was... wait a minute, I can REMEMBER when I said
the 'sinner's prayer' many years ago, why then do I feel
condemned?

I laid there in bed until the weight of my burden became
unbearable, and I cried out to God in repentance for forgiveness
and felt such an experience when the weight was lifted off of me! I
know that salvation is NOT something that can be gauged by how
many chills go up and down your neck, but I do believe that when
one cries out to God with a repentant heart and willingly submits to
His Lordship in their life, then they will know without a doubt that
they have had a 'one on one' with the Creator of the universe!!!

Sometime after that, I became confused with a teaching in our
church, so I began to read some scripture ( which is something that
I never really did before). I read the writings of a lot of other so
called teachers, but it led me more into confusion than anything
else!

Finally, I became so frustrated, that I got on my knees before god
and asked Him to teach me His word, HIS way! I was willing to
learn, even if it meant I had to change some of my own personal
pre-conceived ideas!!! I was not denied!!! I began to understand
passages that before were so unclear to me!

I cannot get enough of the Holy Word now, and can spend hours
upon hours just digging deeper and deeper into it, finding new
truths that I had never known or realized!

One such thing that was cleared up to me was why God had
'warned' me in that dream! I thought I was secure in Him, when in
reality, I had made a mockery of Him and the blood of His son,
Jesus Christ!

I have done some extensive study on OSAS and found it to be not
only a non-biblical teaching, but a VERY dangerous doctrine as
well! I have had many discussions with local pastors and friends
about this, and have always been accused of adding works to
salvation when I say that one must show forth evidence
(repentance, obedience, good works) of their salvation!

One Pastor has even gone so far as to say that when a Christian
feels 'guilt' for sinning, that is the work of SATAN and not God!
I now realize that a lot of the Pastors and lay-people around here
adhere tightly to the teachings of Charles Stanley! In fact, I have an
older brother that is a Baptist Preacher, and he has said various
things that are evident to be from the mouth of Charles Stanley!
This really frightens me! I have in subtle ways attempted to speak
with my brother explaining how the scriptures do not teach the
gospel of Charles Stanley (OSAS), but in fact teach a salvation that
has a 'working' faith. Now, I KNOW my brother and his family.
They are the most God honoring, God fearing, God loving
Christians on the face of this planet, and they live and walk in the
Spirit of God! I do NOT question their salvation! I do, however, fear
for those that might take OSAS to the extreme and use it as a
license to sin! To me, OSAS takes the severity of sin and makes it
into a subject with little or no relevance to salvation!

ANYWAY.... What I would like to ask you for is this.....

I have long time been dissatisfied with the witnessing approaches
that most teachers put out. Some only talk of the love of God, while
some go to the point of pressing the possible convert into making a
profession right then and there, even if they don't really want to!...

Subject: More on OSAS
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:17:40 -0400

After reading another of your articles I would like to give you this for
thought: the idea of Eternal Security is that I should be able to know now
that if I were to die I would be saved. This, however, is not the case;
Jesus says that many will call Him "Lord" but not make it into the Kingdom.
Second, if OSAS is true and those people who abandon the Church were never
saved in the first place, how can we be confident that we are saved? Is it
not possible that we are not truly saved since those other people were not
truly saved even though they believed themselves to be? The OSAS position
itself begs the question it is supposed to be able to answer: "How can we
know that we're saved?" If we can't know until we've died and not renounced
Jesus, how can I be sure now that I am saved? I think am, but so did the
apostates who left (who many who hold to OSAS believe were never saved). If
the answer is that some people have left that were Bible-believing
Christians, then how is Eternal Security true? Just one more morsel for you
to think about.

Kenneth

Subject: Eternal Security
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:03:10 -0400

Your work on eternal security is excellent! I have been convicted of the
fact that it cannot be true since the first time I read Romans 11 and saw
the part about the Jews being grafted back in and the possibility of us
Gentiles being taken back off.

Concerning Calvinism, I think that the idea is self-refuting. There are
plenty of people who have "converted" to Christianity and then left. This
is a problem. It either means that men can possibly seek God (which goes
against Calvinist teaching) or it implies that God can in fact lose those
whom he had preordained (which goes against Calvinist teaching). Keep up
the good work!

Your brother in Christ,

Kenneth

Subject: About Jeff Paton's article-excellent and true
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 04:35:03 -0700

It's about time someone exposed this dangerous 'Stanleyism' for what it is!
He is not scripturally sound at all in that area, leading those astray,
and perhaps to hell, by not leading them to the "IF" you repent, you will
be forgiven.
these verses were on Billy Graham's web site this week-and fit in nicely
with the reasoning-
Thank you for this web site! and thank Jeff Paton too! -Teresa

A quote from the Billy Graham web site to a person:

"The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to
his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen." --2 Timothy
4:18 (NIV)

1. "I have wandered away from the Lord. Is there a way back?" Read our
answer below:

It is good that you realize you have drifted away from the Lord; with such
knowledge you can seek a restored relationship. We have the assurance of
His Word, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Come to
Christ, confess and turn from your sin, and He will keep His promise to
forgive and cleanse; see 1 John 2:1. He further promises that He will not
only forgive, but He will also forget; see Romans 8:1 and Hebrews 8:12.
This is your opportunity to begin life over again and to walk with the Lord
in daily fellowship.

The key word is "IF" for salvation. We are not saved no matter what-that
is a falsehood trick of the devil to think, and is not scripturally sound!

Dear Brother,

I found your web site on a web search. I love your site! I only wish I
could retain and remember everything I read.

May God bless you. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely,

J.W.M

Dear Sir or Maam,
I am requesting permission to use the information on your web-site/s in the
development of Sunday School Curriculum for an Arminian Free Will Baptist
Church.

Thank you for your consideration.

In Him

I want to thank you for your website. God has led me to worship in a
"Bible" church. Basically, a Baptist church that uses modern Praise &
Worship music instead of hymns. I was raised in a Pentecostal pastor's
home. I recall many discussions while growing up about how Calvinism
can't be true, and even now, my father and I discuss the things of God
to assure correct thinking. I know God has led me to this church for a
reason. At this moment, I am involved in a "discussion" with one of the
elders (a staunch Calvinist) concerning this issue. I appreciate his
dedication and have no doubt he is a Christian. Reading some of the
articles on your website was like deja-vu. I was glad to find it. I feel
I have a real tool now. He says his mind is open, but I question that. I
have been frustrated with the circular arguments and side-stepping.
Thanks for the superb resource.

When I first started reading your site...it really sounded quite heretical.

It sounded like you were saying "God saves you, but the first time you slip
and fall, you're going to Hell."

I had to really read what you were saying and study the Scripture behind
it...but when it finally hit me that you were referring to being rebellions
against God...I understood, or at least I think I did, correctly.

I believe that what you are saying is this:

God will save you. "Whosoever calls on my name will be saved."
Sinning UNINTENTIONALLY won't cost you salvation.
"You have been saved by grace...not works"
INTENTIONALLY sinning WILL cost you salvation
---because it is denying God "whoever denies Me I will also deny"
---faith alone saves, but saving faith is never alone...

Lose your salvation" --- to say "lose" your salvation would inspire
fear...saying that if you just do one thing wrong...even though you don't
intend to, you are going to Hell

"give up your salvation" --- by intentionally rebelling against God (i.e.
saying "I know it's wrong but I don't care")...implies that you are
choosing...it's your choice.

So, rather than saying "lose" I just think it might be easier to understand
if you said "give up" or "deny" your salvation.

So, once again assuming that this is the conclusion you have resolved, I
would like to say once again that I agree...

You can't lose your salvation, but you can throw it away by rebelling
against God.

God bless
Peace

In Him,
J.H.

NOTE: For the record, you will rarely see the terminology of "lose" your salvation on the site. It is used almost exclusively in context with those who have written to make "losing" one's salvation the terminology they wish to use to describe "ceasing to be saved." I would prefer "throwing away" one's salvation, though I do not object to the term of "losing" salvation. Salvation is not "lost" as a little boy loses a ball.

I am preaching a series on Discipleship, and have come to the part about
what we believe on Assurance of Eternity. So I found your website. It is
good to see someone who looks at this issue in this direction and is not
afraid to take a stand...

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004

You gave taken on a tough subject here and you have got it right.
Fortunately, I feel most people who believe in eternal security are trying
to live the right life with Christ and very few are abusing it--at least I
hope I am right.

It is so obvious that the bulk of the New Testament (the epistles) are
written to CHRISTIANS to keep them from going astray. If they are
eternally secure, why warn them about all their errors?

The book of Revelation has the letters to the seven churches and these
contain some stiff rebukes (You make me so sick I want to puke . . . my
paraphrase). These clearly are not written to people who should feel
secure in their salvation.

Keep up the good work!

L.P.

Dear Sirs

Thank you for a most informative website. I used to be a proponent of
eternal security, until early this morning...

I don't believe in eternal security, but I do believe in
the love and grace of God... after praying and had some good teaching from a radio program
and realized that I have saving faith, but I cannot go on sinning, and
expect to go to heaven.

May the Lord Bless and keep you!

Gary

Folks:
I have studied the Bible for only 16 years and one of the research
questions which I have resolved is in agreement with you. I have found 29
verses in various Books which refute the "eternal security" misconception.
If you already have them great. If not, I'd be happy to mail them to
you-to further fortify your staunch position to which I subscribe
T.D.

Subject: one major hurdle
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004

Mr Paton, thank you sooooooo much for all your work, passion, and research
on the OSAS heresies. I've greatly benefited form it. But either I've
overlooked your explanation of this passage or it hasn't been addressed
which I feel is most unlikely. How do I answer the challenge presented by
Christs' statement of "My sheep hear my voice another they will NOT
follow."? God Bless.....and thank you again for all you've
done........Barry

EternalSecurity.us,

I'm so thrilled that I found your site!! When I first got saved, I started
to get sucked into the false doctrine of OSAS because of my limited
knowledge of the scriptures. But once I understood the clear logic you
have presented in your arguments, it was like a breath of fresh air to me!!
I'm so happy to know the truth of the gospel. Keep going on for God - He
has definitely placed your site here for a purpose!! It saved me from the
possibility of losing my salvation!!! Thanks a million! What church are
you affiliated with? Keep up the good work and God Bless!

Seth H.

Jeff,

I was wondering if you could provide me with some more sources that could
elaborate on the concept of prevenient grace. It is something that I was
unfamiliar with until I came to your website. Brother, I appreciate all
that you have provided in your opposition again OSAS and Calvinism and I've
made liberal use of your links to fellow proponents of "conditional
security."

By the way, have you ever heard of James R. White. He wrote a big book in
the last few years about Justification By Faith and he's Calvinist. I think
you should check the book out. I'd like to read some of your thoughts on
his work at defending Imputation and other issues.

Thanks again,

In Christ
Shaun

Jeff,

I wanted to take this time to thank you for your eternal security website
and that I appreciate its content. I have benefited richly from the links
that your site provided and have founded numerous articles and critiques by
men like Brother Robert from the Narrow Way, Dan Corner (I plan on getting
his book on the believer's conditional security), Mike DeSario. I think
sometimes the hardest thing to do is know how to address questions that
someone you know has about once saved always saved. There are so many ways
and angles to approach the subject from. The variety of reading that I've
done on the topic now shows me this clearly. Shooh!

I want to wish you well, especially in this holiday season and hope that
your thanksgiving went well. May God bless you brother.

In Jesus' Name

Shaun

Subject: THANK YOU!
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:19:42 -0500

Dear Sir or madam,
I want to extend my gratitude for putting this page up. I have
always believed eternal security to be "Satan's masterpiece."
I am 19 years old, a pastor, and active member in Campus Crusade for
Christ. CCC preaches eternal security and I am having to handle the
situation oh so delicately. They have me leading a study on righteous
living on Thursdays and this topic is bound to come up soon. The main
problem I have is the fact of my location...

I am getting ready to type a paper that I will distribute... on why eternal security
is a farce. Please pray that this paper will not be discarded but read
seriously and prayerfully considered... Please Pray for me in this endeavor.
>
>                         God Bless
>
>                         J.H.

I just came across your site and look forward to digging into it further.
I come from an OSAS background and serve as pastor in an OSAS church.
However recently, I have been preaching on the perseverance of the saints
and have taken a good bit of heat for it from some in my congregation.
Last week I had a lady tell me after my message that I "just preached her
daddy into hell." (I never knew her daddy).

As I read some of the comments of the people responding to your site I can
see that many are offended at the thought that OSAS is a false doctrine. I
am reminded of Jesus' words in Matthew 11:6, "blessed is he who is not
offended."

I don't want to be just another "average Eternal Securist who has no
interest in challenging themselves to see whether their doctrine can hold
up under the pressure-cooker of truth."

Thank you for spurring me on.

K.K.

Dear Brother,

The subject of ES has come up for my wife and I lately. I have been a
Christian for almost 25 years, and have studied my way through this
subject, landing my ship on the shores of common sense and plain biblical
statements. My wife has been struggling with the subject, possibly more the
attitudes that rejecters of the doctrine display, rather than the simple
biblical evidence. Sometimes people get pretty intense.

I am enjoying your website though, and am currently reading the review of
Charles Stanley's book. Like you, what times I have listened to the man
speak, I have never yet heard him NOT mention ES.

Keep marching. I didn't realize just how polarizing this subject was out
there. It often seems that those who promote ES, and deny obedience to
God's commandments, make the teachings of Jesus subservient to the
writings of Paul, at the exclusion of James, Peter, John and Jude. It is a
strange path to take, when one professes belief in a whole Bible.

God be with you,

Ray F.

I have wrestled with this issue in the past, and still have family
members, and even church members who still hold to eternal security.

Also, I want to thank you for this informative website. I heard
a sermon last night on the radio that raised some questions, and your website
provided the answers I needed. I feel it was the Lord that directed me
here today.
Again, I am sorry if I missed the requested info. on the site, but if you
could provide me with it I would be appreciative. Keep up the good work,
and God bless you.

Thank you,

A couple who have come to my home under disguise to cause a division
brought up once saved always saved in the Bible Study. I have printed all of
your information and have read some of it. I found they have used the same scripture
to try and argue their case, I had asked them to come to this beginners
101 Salvation Bible Study because they said they knew nothing! Now I fined out
they are members of a Church and he is being mentored by the Pastor to
become an Assistant Pastor.
Is this going on all over or what? I am quite upset with myself to be deceived like this.

I have called their Pastor and left a message That I did not know they were members and if I knew that I would have never asked them. I believe he should be teaching them and I was sorry about
the misunderstanding. Also I have been disrespected in my home and this is
improper behavior for anyone. I hope that you get the message out to all!

This might of hurt others in the group, but God is in control! The group felt
something was wrong with them, and because they are young also in the Lord
talked to me about it, Thank God!
I have asked them now not to come, their are to many souls that could be
hurt because of their false belief. Thank You

First, I want to commend you on a great website! I have been studying
the subject of Eternal Security for a few months and have found your website extremely valuable.

I really appreciate your attempt to read and interpret the scriptures without any presuppositions.

I love the content of your site and would enjoy the opportunity to get to know more about you and your background. Our doctrinal stances seem almost identical, but you are a much better writer. I'm hoping some of that will rub off on me as I continue to read your articles. Keep up the great work.

Here is the link I added.
http://www.folktheology.com/links.html

I am a United Methodist Student Local Pastor. I am in college and am writing a paper on conditional security and through a search I found these web sites. I love them. This is good material and to the point. I had no idea these existed. I did not know there was an IMARC as well, or Arminian.net. But few of the web sites actually list the credentials of anyone writing the paper. I am new at this stuff so please forgive me if I sound pushy...

I am just interested because I had no idea that all this existed and through the UMC we get very little training in this area when we start off. Sad to say.

My paper is for English 102 - research. it is a 5 page article of my choice. Do I need permission to use a quote if cited properly? I would also list the web site for the professor. I am using Robert Shank's book Life in the son as well. Purkiser's Security The true and the false. Wynkoop's Foundations of Arminian Theology is a good book as well. Geisler and Steel are my Calvinist books. Thank you for your time and for your great work. Rev. A.

Jeff,

Thanks for the tracts. I've tucked them away in my Bible. I know they will
really come in handy. And again, thanks to you and whoever else helping you for
all the work you've put into your sites, and God bless you and your ministry.

In Christ,
Aaron

PS Are there any good books available you would recommend that refute
unconditional security/advocate conditional security? I've heard of The
Believer's Conditional Security, but that's about it. Would you recommend it? Thanks.

Greetings,

First, I would like to commend you for your various informative articles on your webpage refuting eternal security. I also tend to reject this doctrine and I enjoy reading many of the Arminian articles here. However, one thing does disturb me. It seems that many of the articles are written with the presumption that all eternal securists are lost. I am firmly convinced that one can be a born again believer and be sincere in his zeal for God while still holding to opinions that are not entirely scriptural. I am married to an Independent Baptist, yet I am convinced that she and her family and most of their church members are fine, sincere Christians. I think it is going to extremes to place all Calvinists in the "needs to be saved" camp. Even the famous Arminian, John Wesley, never went so far as to imply that one cannot be a Calvinist and be a Christian. Here is a quote from his sermon "On the Trinity"

1. Whatsoever the generality of people may think, it is certain that opinion is not religion: No, not right opinion; assent to one, or to ten thousand truths. There is a wide difference between them: Even right opinion is as distant from religion as the east is from the west. Persons may be quite right in their opinions, and yet have no religion at all; and, on the other hand, persons may be truly religious, who hold many wrong opinions. Can any one possibly doubt of this, while there are Romanists in the world? For who can deny, not only that many of them formerly have been truly religious, as Thomas a Kempis, Gregory Lopez, and the Marquis de Renty; but that many of them, even at this day, are real inward Christians? And yet what a heap of erroneous opinions do they hold, delivered by tradition from their fathers! Nay, who can doubt of it while there are Calvinists in the world, -- assertors of absolute predestination? For who will dare to affirm that none of these are truly religious men? Not only many of them in the last century were burning and shining lights, but many of them are now real Christians, loving God and all mankind. And yet what are all the absurd opinions of all the Romanists in the world, compared to that one, that the God of love, the wise, just, merciful Father of the spirits of all flesh, has, from all eternity, fixed an absolute, unchangeable, irresistible, decree, that part of all mankind shall be saved, do what they will; and the rest damned, do what they can!

The sermon in its entirety can be found by clicking this link:

http://wesley.nnu.edu/JohnWesley/sermons/055.htm

Again, I applaud you for your zeal in exposing the flaws of Calvinism, but I admonish you not to stray off into extremes of saying that one must believe our way or he is not saved.

In Christ,

S.K.

This was his response:

Hi,

Thanks for the reference to your article. I read it and I obviously stand corrected. I have read several articles, not by you necessarily, but by others who seem to me to be describing all proponents of OSAS as unbelievers and I thought I noticed that underlying tone in your article as well. However, since I obviously misconstrued your words, perhaps I have done the same with many other articles I have
read on the subject. Anyway, thanks for the response.

In Christ,

S.K.

Hi, I am a church planter. I was ordained in the Nazarene Church but had no idea the degree of difficulty I would face from other denominations like those with the Calvinist background. We named our church a community church to reach out and we did get a lot of unchurched folks and they are doing great. But my battle sometimes is the eternal security folks. They are nice and all but I still feel like there is a gap between where they're at and where I am at. Your paper, Jeff Paton, on a rebuttal against Dr Stanley really charged my batteries. I am reading Grace, Faith, and Holiness by Dunn right now. I am praying for wisdom and how to present this message to our people but our town is really Mormon and Baptist. What advice do you have for me? Thanks...Joe

Just stumbled on your site. praise God.

I feel so alone and isolated in this dark day. I know of no one who believes
in the Truth of Jesus Christ in my immediate area...

I would like to cite your website for my research paper on "God's
Righteousness: Comparing the Doctrines of Reform and Arminian Theology".
Could I know the names or organization that claims authorship of the
articles...

Thank you,
S.C.

Freshman at a Christian college

To Jeff or to the webmaster,

Thank you so much for putting this information on your website. I was not
sure between the two points of view, but after reading a few articles on
your website I am convinced that eternal security is a lie. By the way, in
one of the articles it sounded like one of the authors was Southern Baptist.
Is this true?

James

Thank you for you work and your site. Every time I want a refresher on salvation issues your site is always a click away.

Mark P.

Once Saved Always Saved?
Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? Hebrews 2:1-4

Since every transgression and disobedience to the word spoken through angels received a just reward, then those who neglect so great a salvation which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will not escape retribution? But what kind of punishment will the transgressors and disobedient one will receive? God's word tell us:

"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:4-6

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' " Hebrews 3:8-11

"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelations 21:8

The word of God in Hebrews 6:4-8 is very clear that concerning salvation it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. Yes, the rebellious and disobedient ones will not enter God's rest but shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone along with the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars. So why do many bible believing religious ones continue to perpetrate the doctrine of demon of once saved always saved? Because they are liars and unrepentant liars burn in hell! They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known God's ways.' God's word is unchanging:

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:17-22

Yes, after they had escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they become again entangled in them and overcome, and the latter end is worse for them than the beginning! It doesn't matter who they are even if they are pastors and preachers and TV Evangelists, if they drift way from so great a salvation them that was confirmed with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit for them is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Have you ever noted that it's those who reject miracles, signs and wonders and the gifts of the Spirit today preach the most about once saved always saved? Why is this so? Because they are the blind leading the blind and they all fall into the ditch!

Excellent web site, but I recently found this reference cited as an example given in defense of O.S.A.S. Up until now I've been 100% convinced that the scriptures in favor of O.S.A.S. have been manipulated and taken out of context, but this one is really causing me some problems....can anyone help me understand what's being said here...I just don't get it......how can a truth so important seem to be so hidden...?Please help me with this scripture I Cor. 5:1-5.....

Jeff Paton,

I thank the Lord for you and your diligent labor. I
have learned so much from this site. I spent hours
and have not seen it all. I have heard so much
selling the "once saved, always saved." I was never
fully sold, but now I have wonderful evidence for the
real truth. Thank you so much. I am a discerning
reader, and I have nothing negative to say about what
I read. The Lord has blessed you with wisdom. I will
pray for you and your site. What a blessing you have
brought to the internet.

I am sure there is nothing new for you, but I will add
that Matthew 25:14-26 is a parable that has the man
with his "own servants". The servant who does not
work to make a profit is cast out into outer darkness
when the owner returns. It highlights our requirement
to labor to maintain our good standing with our
Master.

Take Care and God Bless your ministry.

Greetings,
Please send the 140 reasons Eternal Security is false tract.
Also, if you have any debates on the subject, please send a list and the price for each.

I don't believe the doctrine of Eternal Stupidity, uh er... Security. The sad thing is that when I got saved, it was taught to me, and I believed it. A family member told me that God is not an Indian giver and once he gives salvation would never take it away....
But I read in Job that the Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away... Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Also, Jesus said, "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, the Father TAKETH AWAY."
What's sad is that when I was barely saved and indoctrinated into OSAS, a Jehovah's Witness came by one day and hammered me with about 20 or so verses against Eternal Security. It's a bad testimony to those guys when Christians try to defend something so obviously false.
Under His easy yoke,

Randy

To Whom it may concern:
I worship in a Methodist church yet I struggle with a lot of the
doctrines preached in my local congregation, often times reformed/calvinist
doctrines make more scriptural sense. I am not so sure where I stand on a
lot of the things your website is presenting, I see some definite logical
flaws in your arguments against Calvinism, but I would not be so bold as to
say you are wrong and Calvinism is right. I am just saying a lot of
arguments that are made are just as illogical as the arguments that
Calvinists make, just in the opposite direction. Nonetheless I really
appreciate this website, it is an excellent resource and there are very few
good sites out there devoted to the truth of scripture as opposed to a
specific theological position. Calvinism that is 'exercised' by an
unbeliever would offer a very false sense of security, that is to believe
you are chosen, but not believe in Christ and His sacrifice. I don't want
to ramble I just want to say that your site has really made me think, and
question some theology I have held to. and that is something I really
appreciate.

In Christ,
Jay

Dear Jeff--
Thank you for your response to my e-mail, I will give one example I
read that I would say is logically flawed.

>From your site:
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the
world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned:
(You would think that God was clear on His Calvinism and would have said,
"He that is predestined is not condemned." I guess God missed that!)

I fully understand that this comment is tongue and cheek and I can
appreciate that, but it is very typical of the way a Calvinist will defend
their theology. They often will make simple tongue and cheek comments to
make the other side (Arminians) simply appear stupid. I could make a
similar argument:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to
himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, -- (You would think
that God would have said, "He that is predestinated by his own belief," I
guess God missed that!)

Now the statement I just made you can clearly and logically destroy, and as
I said before it is just tongue and cheek. However it is comments like
those that will only empower your argument with people who are already
convinced of your position. I think you see what I mean. I am not even
sure I would suggest changing those statements on the site, I am just saying
that they won't do much to persuade a Calvinist to your position.

Anyway I still really like the website, and I really appreciate it and I
hope you keep it up. I have found some very thoughtful Calvinists and
Arminians who are more concerned Christ and His glory who make excellent
arguments for their side, and more often then not their conclusions seem
very similar but the semantics and how the argument is packaged is very
different. I have also encountered many lazy Calvinists who are resting in
Calvinism as opposed to Christ and if they do not repent they have sad
surprise ahead of them. Moreover I have seen Arminians so focused on good
works and "Christian Action" that they fail to recognize and accept the
Christ who is to be at the root of all their actions and they don't see the
rest and liberty that Christ gives us. I appreciate what you are doing.

In Christ <><
Jay

Hello,

I particularly enjoyed your article on what scholars term “penal
substitution” as opposed to “vicarious satisfaction.”

I agree, Jesus was in no way punished for our sins. Punishment entails
retributive justice, which could not provide the least motive for any part
of the satisfaction Jesus took upon himself in the Redemption.

You would really enjoy Philippe de la Trinité, What is Redemption? (New
York, NY: Hawthorn, 1961), where he sets forth the same arguments you have,
citing Scripture, the Fathers of the Church, the Protestant Reformers,
medieval scholastics, modern theologians, and semi-contemporary theologians
(since the book was punished in ’61).

God bless you,

Carson

I have read some of the things you wrote on OSAS and agree that you have
to read eternal security into the verses or it is not there. I never
even heard of OSAS until a few years ago and was shocked such a belief
existed. I have since done a thorough study of this doctrine from both
sides and have not found any biblical evidence for it. I have also
found that OSAS people get angry fast when you ask questions concerning
this doctrine's validity. You have a good site and I also have done a
lot of reading on Dan Corners site I have nearly worn out my paperback
copy of his 801 page book (should have gotten the hard bound copy).

Thank you for your informative website! I believe that God will bless this
work. Since my early conversion I had been unaware of this crucial
doctrine... but praise God! I would be grateful, [indeed, some souls of my
acquaintance may be eternally grateful] if you could send some tracts to:

Jonathan

I am certainly impressed with your web site. I am dealing with some people
right now who give unbelievable scriptures to support eternal security, and
like you said, none of them say security is guaranteed! They are putting
something into it that is not there! Anyway, I believe in living free from
sin and have found very few people who do so your web site was refreshing!
May the lord continue to bless the truth of his word on your web site!

May I please have a bible tract on this topic sent to me? It would be
greatly appreciated!

Tina

Dear Saint in Christ,

I am very happy to know the truth about "eternal
security" as I always want to make sure if it's the
truth and finally find out that it's a lie! I am
shocked to perceive that many deceived Christians are
being led to the slaughter! I would like to share this
important message with those Christians that I know
of. Pray that they would humble their hearts and
receive the truth.

My address:

Hui

Praise the Lord. It is so refreshing to see someone who is standing completely on the truth of God's Righteousness At Christ's Expense (GRACE). Even the faith to believe is a gift of God's grace (unmerited favor). All else are the musings of the world, the flesh and the Devil!

I also find that those who cannot understand the truth of God's grace also do not understand the great exchange and that the their new identity is that of Yeshua Himself. Rather than trusting that they are holy and blameless before God in love, they go about attempting to accomplish something that has already been accomplished for them. They end up chasing their spiritual tails, so to speak. This is the sad state of most born again groups of people in the world.

The Bible tells us that 'as you have received Messiah Jesus, so walk ye in Him." Col. 2:6. Saved by grace through faith; live by grace through faith. What a difference a revelation of His grace makes. You stop doing in order to be and begin being in order to do.

Our ministry works with those who have been brainwashed and are so performance oriented that they need to be deprogrammed from religion and introduced into a relationship with the Savior. We get flack from the Pharisees but we see people set free. If you believe you are a holy one, a saint, your behavior will more consistently reflect your true nature...As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

Keep proclaiming the truth.

Your brother in the ministry of grace,
Steve

I want to thank you for all you put into your website. I found it very
helpful in preparing for a message on the topic. You have done a great
job of refuting the arguments with logic and Biblical reasoning.

Just to share a little personal history, I used to be a Baptist and
completely believed in UES. However I became concerned that it seemed
that every time the pastor came across a passage that seemed to say you
could be lost, they would have a explanation on why the Bible did not
mean what it seemed to be obviously saying. For a long time I accepted
these explanations. The change came for me from John chapter 15 where
Jesus was warning the Disciples not to leave. I just could not reconcile
the Baptist interpretation with the clear statement of Jesus. I had a
paradigm shift and could never go back. I felt tremendously freed to
take a very simple approach to Biblical Interpretation; the Bible means
what it is obviously saying. That started me on a journey that
eventually lead me into being a pastor for the Church of the Nazarene.

I read through about 150 pages of your site. Good explanation of
Wesleyan theology in contrast to Calvinistic and Baptistic theology.

I did not read however one point that you may have covered but missed.
That is that a belief in Eternal Security actually deprives the believer
of any assurance of salvation. This is a conclusion well documented in
Calvinistic writings. I am sure you know the story of John Wesley’s
torment over his own lack of assurance and how astounded he was when he
met a group of Moravian Christians on the return to England who
displayed assurance and peace in the face of likely death in a storm. He
had been schooled that this was impossible. It stirred a hunger in his
heart and he start attending Moravian meeting when he had the experience
at Altersgate. The whole Wesleyan revival started over the issue of
knowing you were saved; a revolutionary idea in the thoroughly
Calvinistic era. Quite a paradox that a doctrine about security deprives
its adherents of that very thing when logically examined.

God Bless you, Keep up the good work.

Ward

I LOVE your site! So refreshing.

Thank you!!

I was almost perpetually backslidden for many years, merely assenting to the truths of the Bible, trusting that I would escape Hell because I did, after all, believe that Jesus was the Saviour--I had been converted in my youth, and I fully was persuaded that salvation could not be lost, for that is what I had been taught by my pastor, who I fully trusted. I felt that I could truly afford to sin. And that's exactly what I did. I did not really follow Christ until I understood that I really needed to. As I came to believe that there were woefully significant consequences for my sin, I was no longer comfortable in sin, and I became afraid. I nearly instantly repented, and ever since then I have lived in a far more obedient and sober manner, and that consistently. None of this proves that OSAS theology is wrong, but I must say that it appears that good fruit has resulted from my rejection of this theology. Praise God that I came to understand that I needed to repent! The very thought of being eternally separated from all that is good is absolutely terrifying to me! Oh, how I wish that others could see that they must repent from their heart if they would avoid this awful fate!

Another thing--I have a good relationship with my former pastor. What books/articles would you recommend that I furnish for my former pastor, who is accepting of Calvinistic doctrine, especially unconditional security? He is Southern Baptist, and he is the vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, a 16-million member organization. I believe that he is poised to become its next president very soon. I would like to be used of God in a strategic way. He is a good man, and I believe that he is not so proud as to not be teachable.

Thank you!!

Thank you for doing the research to formulate your arguments against the doctrine of "eternal security". My wife and I have been discussing this subject, and your essay has given us much to think and talk about. I personally believe that a Christian must keep himself in love with Jesus, or face the Judgment without an Advocate.
Ethan

Dear brother in Jesus,
It is refreshing to see that there are others out there that believe the
truth and not that of OSAS. I too have a web site
http://www.matthew633.net/ and with you permission I would like to add on of
your articles as a permanent fixture to my site; of course I would make sure
that on the page your article is on there will be a link back to your site.
I am a very small ministry that only wishes others to know the REAL TRUTH of
God and not some false OSAS doctrine. If this is OK with you then please
tell me which article I may use. I am looking for you foremost/best article
that refutes OSAS. I look forward to hearing from you.
In Jesus,
Pastor Rich

Wow! Free at last!

I never could quite pinpoint what was wrong with Bob George.

I am sitting here in amazing joy thanks to you and God, or course!

That awful thing he says about 1 John 1:9 and his assertion of all sins
forgiven, past, present and future have been like little demons in my head
for the past 20 years! I feel like I have just been truly saved!

Thank you. Thank you, and thank you!

Praise God!

Ralph

Thanks, Jeff!

I'm eternally grateful to you. I think that it is wonderful what you do. I care about truth and the Bible more than anything. It is amazing how "little" false teaching it takes to provide enough poison to ultimately
destroy it so much!... I now remember being dissatisfied in my Baptist church back in 1974 because they taught that I was just a "saved sinner," and that people, "thank God, "were saved by grace--"because no one can keep from sinning!" Useless to try!

Who would imagine that the great Baptist church could be so wrong on major points of doctrine--like "eternal security, and "once saved, always saved," and "not only your past sins are forgiven but your present and future sins!" Just the little I have read on your site has made me rejoice in that
Scripture, "Know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

It's amazing how I kept such obvious contradictions in my mind for so long!

Bless you again and again! Praise God for people like you who labor in the Word to reclaim Truth from false teachers!

I am sending this to all the friends and relatives that I "might" have hurt by passing on such false doctrine,! [Luckily, not too many ever listened to me!] and I would urge them to study the Bible for themselves. But first, it would really help them to read everything on your site and comparing it to what they have been taught, and ..."If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." [Isaiah 8:20]

Of course, maybe if I had read your material back then, I might not have understood it. Perhaps it has taken all this time and study to finally realize that what you write is true!

…Thank God , Jeff, that I found your Biblical opposition on the internet.
Many will gain through your labors!

By the grace of God I logged on to your site--and to think that I thought I didn't need a computer ten years ago!

As Daniel prophesied thousands of years ago that "knowledge would be increased" in the latter days, the computer surely has increased knowledge in these times! Thanks for being on it, Jeff!

You are a real blessing from God!

-------------------

Your site on eternal security is one of the best I've seen. Your arguments are solid and well-thought out. Thanks so much for investing your time and money to develop this wonderful site to crush the deadly deception of osas. I noticed the last update was in June, are you still active with the site.

--
Regards,
Devon

I found your site and am interested in registering. I am a minister and
this sight seems to be something I could enjoy and get some help . Thanks.

Lowell

I have recently stumbled upon several websites dealing with this theology (OSAS). To many people are deceived into thinking "I'm saved, and that's that". I attend a Baptist church.

It has always bothered me (the idea that I can keep on doing the things I hate to do.....) that people can have a profession of faith and even have a compelling testimony but yet live an idol-filled, materialistic lifestyle with little to show for either personal growth or any other evidence for their "faith". We are called to
"Walk in the Light".

Yet we are taught not to judge, and we are reluctant to discuss this topic with someone especially when this person is a person of "standing" in the church. You just don't bring up the subject… I tell you if you start talking about transformation, striving for holy living, being called out and being separated from the world, the room suddenly goes silent. I hear senior men talk about being saved when they were 12 years old or
something, but yet they don't bring their Bibles to a Bible study, don't want to pray, don't want to talk about their testimony. I'm sorry and I know it's not for me to judge but what is that all about?

I think it's about "I was saved on November 3, 1961 at 7:30 PM at Anwhere Baptist church when I was 8 years old AND THAT'S THAT (subtext = so don't ask ME anything about MY faith - It's a done
deal.) I am a forgetful person by nature, but I can't imagine this type of testimony - in fact I don't think it IS a testimony. I had an encounter with God one night under an oak tree in my back yard and "something happened" to me. All I know is my life has never been the same and I am on an exciting 10year (so far) journey with God and it is a wonderful, great thing.

So thank you for your website and the information. I will be "checking" Scripture citations on my own… so far everything I have read my Spirit tells me I am reading Truth.

BTW we are studying 1 John… I find 1 John 2:1 very interesting: ....I am writing these things so you may NOT sin, but IF you do sin....... What can that mean but that we are called to live a righteous life each according to our own personal struggle with sin, knowing we cannot be sinless, but yet striving for it and along the way recognizing it and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I don't hear this much from my preacher or any other preacher.

In Christ,
Bob